All very interesting and relevant :) Like you, I’ve often thought about what communication, leisure, and communion was before all THIS (haha) and 20 or 30 years ago, I was contemplating it for much further back. This has always been what I’ve loved, but I’ve tried to live with some of the modern momentum simply to be able to participate in the present world. There were such rich experiences, it would seem—great experiential and sensory depth. I do think rekindling conversation in these ways is powerful, and then also rekindling aspects within oneself that are valuable and support being able to do that can be a great thing to do. Reading aloud by a fire or candlelight even on one’s own can be a powerful invocation of those older energies and nourishing and inspiring. I found my way to that almost accidentally—the interest and intention was there I suppose, but no deliberation on how to reach it—and with poetry over a hundred years old aloud and really quickly I felt so connected with that. In a sense it hypnotized me—which I think much of that was designed to do: to move people to a particular frequency or resonance individually and together. So, in other words, some kinds of breaking-the-ice with oneself and moving one’s energy might be helpful for going deeper with others. There are likely some who want those deeper conversations, and are themselves not so comfortable with them, but this kind of thing might be helpful for most. Not sure if with building codes it could be simple, but even in the cities it feels like it would be great if we could sit around the fire together in sorts of watering holes and tap very directly into that unbroken stream of consciousness that connects us with all those before us. I think it’s good not to get caught up with props or strict methodologies, but creating atmosphere is very useful, which could connect with the idea of time and place you guys discussed. I’m really wiped out today, but I hope I’ve managed to communicate something somewhat tangible :) We could all be figuring out a whole lot and having a lot more fun together. I do think many ARE waking up to that. One has to hope it doesn’t get buried in all the extremities happening all too often, but I think while some people numb many are going to try to cope by reaching towards the truth and good ways of being—old and new.
I absolutely relate about words and them being spoken in how they feel in the body and can take us =).
We are so "old and new" - nicely said =). Community is where we came from before all the "safety" and "progress" of life happened. Unfortunately, there is a fair bit that was lost or was dismissed, both wittingly and unwittingly by some, as unimportant that ought not have been. We were together around fires for wisdom and our histories too. We were together against predators who are not of humankind. Now we need that togetherness to defend against the intergenerational dysfunction that is rooted within our species. It is a much trickier fight or flight life.
'Pick your punches....“I’ve been reading a lot about the linguistics, sociology and psychology of conversation and I think I’ve come to a newfound appreciation of just how complex conversation is…there is a set of norms that are, in some sense, gently blocking us from turning a philosophical conversation in a philosophical direction.”'
Yes, sounds like the greys which is what my MIL called it last week. It is what I then called the annoying greys. Agnes Callard used a euphemism there in saying that it gently blocks conversation. To me they are the places where we hide from truth just because people can choose not to answer, can be vague or are perfunctory about it all. This occurs in general topics and, for a fair few I know, equally so in the really crazily layered complex spaces. I am all for meeting people where they are at but when that person is stuck so is the conversation.
Yeah—that quote stood out to me too. I’d love some specific elaboration on how and why these norms are “gently blocking us” from that. It feels like we need to be specifically aware of what these norms are then. And where are they coming from? Is it something related to common fears? Or has it somehow been engineered in the culture with how we’re taught in school and elsewhere to participate in things? My mind’s drawing a blank on specific examples at the moment. Maybe they get into some ideas on this more in the recorded interview.
I hope there is audio. I am new to this platform. Is it normal that all the articles have that to accompany them?
Honestly, in my experience I think a lot of what holds adults back is a mixture of what you mentioned in your questions: societal customs and the many things that happen/do not happen in the formative years of our childhood prior to adulthood. So basically all things human that shape us: our families/caregivers, society, culture, scholastic education etc. Essentially, it being so human: coping habits and routines as we are creatures of habit down to how we process, it is just about all rooted in mental health for me. I say that simply because I can never seem to find an issue in human interaction matters that does not centre around neglected mental health. Specifically, on the micro level I look at how hard it is for us to problem-solve our own individual lives. And that of course extends into the macro level. We are so interdependent and that being done healthily is missing in life.
I also think about how maddening the majority of the population being neurotypical must be to people who are neurodivergent. I know people who are the latter. The absolute truth and fullness that they need to share, to the best of my understanding, ends up being stifled/masked - that is such a draining thing to live.
There are many pieces to digest. Still, whatever they are; I want them to be known and explored for us to be better. Life as is, keeps growing in horrors daily, it is not sustainable.
So what to you is neurotypical and neurodivergent? Is it defined by some type of bell curve known as a NORMAL DISTRIBUTION or a negatively skewed distribution?
If A normal distribution, then how many standard deviations out before one is divergent?
I always seem to be communicating with Wittgenstein’s lions.
I do not label people. The people I spoke of up there are my friends/family and all have been diagnosed. To what degree is their business if they want to share. I just adapt myself to what their needs are to the best of my ability.
Perhaps, you can explain what you mean by the last line around Wittgenstein’s analogy within the context of this discussion.
I’m sorry. You used the terms—labels— neurotypical and neurodivergent so I was curious what they meant to you. Now you use the word ‘diagnosed.’ That creates other issues for me as one well versed in statistics theory, both mathematically and philosophically.
All very interesting and relevant :) Like you, I’ve often thought about what communication, leisure, and communion was before all THIS (haha) and 20 or 30 years ago, I was contemplating it for much further back. This has always been what I’ve loved, but I’ve tried to live with some of the modern momentum simply to be able to participate in the present world. There were such rich experiences, it would seem—great experiential and sensory depth. I do think rekindling conversation in these ways is powerful, and then also rekindling aspects within oneself that are valuable and support being able to do that can be a great thing to do. Reading aloud by a fire or candlelight even on one’s own can be a powerful invocation of those older energies and nourishing and inspiring. I found my way to that almost accidentally—the interest and intention was there I suppose, but no deliberation on how to reach it—and with poetry over a hundred years old aloud and really quickly I felt so connected with that. In a sense it hypnotized me—which I think much of that was designed to do: to move people to a particular frequency or resonance individually and together. So, in other words, some kinds of breaking-the-ice with oneself and moving one’s energy might be helpful for going deeper with others. There are likely some who want those deeper conversations, and are themselves not so comfortable with them, but this kind of thing might be helpful for most. Not sure if with building codes it could be simple, but even in the cities it feels like it would be great if we could sit around the fire together in sorts of watering holes and tap very directly into that unbroken stream of consciousness that connects us with all those before us. I think it’s good not to get caught up with props or strict methodologies, but creating atmosphere is very useful, which could connect with the idea of time and place you guys discussed. I’m really wiped out today, but I hope I’ve managed to communicate something somewhat tangible :) We could all be figuring out a whole lot and having a lot more fun together. I do think many ARE waking up to that. One has to hope it doesn’t get buried in all the extremities happening all too often, but I think while some people numb many are going to try to cope by reaching towards the truth and good ways of being—old and new.
I absolutely relate about words and them being spoken in how they feel in the body and can take us =).
We are so "old and new" - nicely said =). Community is where we came from before all the "safety" and "progress" of life happened. Unfortunately, there is a fair bit that was lost or was dismissed, both wittingly and unwittingly by some, as unimportant that ought not have been. We were together around fires for wisdom and our histories too. We were together against predators who are not of humankind. Now we need that togetherness to defend against the intergenerational dysfunction that is rooted within our species. It is a much trickier fight or flight life.
'Pick your punches....“I’ve been reading a lot about the linguistics, sociology and psychology of conversation and I think I’ve come to a newfound appreciation of just how complex conversation is…there is a set of norms that are, in some sense, gently blocking us from turning a philosophical conversation in a philosophical direction.”'
Yes, sounds like the greys which is what my MIL called it last week. It is what I then called the annoying greys. Agnes Callard used a euphemism there in saying that it gently blocks conversation. To me they are the places where we hide from truth just because people can choose not to answer, can be vague or are perfunctory about it all. This occurs in general topics and, for a fair few I know, equally so in the really crazily layered complex spaces. I am all for meeting people where they are at but when that person is stuck so is the conversation.
Yeah—that quote stood out to me too. I’d love some specific elaboration on how and why these norms are “gently blocking us” from that. It feels like we need to be specifically aware of what these norms are then. And where are they coming from? Is it something related to common fears? Or has it somehow been engineered in the culture with how we’re taught in school and elsewhere to participate in things? My mind’s drawing a blank on specific examples at the moment. Maybe they get into some ideas on this more in the recorded interview.
I hope there is audio. I am new to this platform. Is it normal that all the articles have that to accompany them?
Honestly, in my experience I think a lot of what holds adults back is a mixture of what you mentioned in your questions: societal customs and the many things that happen/do not happen in the formative years of our childhood prior to adulthood. So basically all things human that shape us: our families/caregivers, society, culture, scholastic education etc. Essentially, it being so human: coping habits and routines as we are creatures of habit down to how we process, it is just about all rooted in mental health for me. I say that simply because I can never seem to find an issue in human interaction matters that does not centre around neglected mental health. Specifically, on the micro level I look at how hard it is for us to problem-solve our own individual lives. And that of course extends into the macro level. We are so interdependent and that being done healthily is missing in life.
I also think about how maddening the majority of the population being neurotypical must be to people who are neurodivergent. I know people who are the latter. The absolute truth and fullness that they need to share, to the best of my understanding, ends up being stifled/masked - that is such a draining thing to live.
There are many pieces to digest. Still, whatever they are; I want them to be known and explored for us to be better. Life as is, keeps growing in horrors daily, it is not sustainable.
So what to you is neurotypical and neurodivergent? Is it defined by some type of bell curve known as a NORMAL DISTRIBUTION or a negatively skewed distribution?
If A normal distribution, then how many standard deviations out before one is divergent?
I always seem to be communicating with Wittgenstein’s lions.
I do not label people. The people I spoke of up there are my friends/family and all have been diagnosed. To what degree is their business if they want to share. I just adapt myself to what their needs are to the best of my ability.
Perhaps, you can explain what you mean by the last line around Wittgenstein’s analogy within the context of this discussion.
I’m sorry. You used the terms—labels— neurotypical and neurodivergent so I was curious what they meant to you. Now you use the word ‘diagnosed.’ That creates other issues for me as one well versed in statistics theory, both mathematically and philosophically.
Exactly how do you converse about life without labels/common language to some degree with people who are not you?
You also did not answer about Wittgenstein.